Particulary if you expect 100- 200 yards distances. 4. is priced about like conventional soft point bullets, including Hot-Cor, yet All rights reserved. for Class 4 bison in .416 Rigby. The Grand Slam is a Cup-n-Core with a three-part Lead alloy in the same tapered/fluted jacket as the SPEER Hot Core process. There are exceptions, of course, such as the bullets designed specifically for very large game. the grand slam is a whale of a bullet - it performs way over its paygrade. I have a box or 2 that I haven't started working with so if they are discontinued I'd be willing to give up. 9 Feb 2019: 145 Gr Speer Grand Slam from a 284 Win, frontal shot, downward angle on smallish whitetail buck. 125 Grain. Save Share. There are bullet fads, just like there are fads in clothing or automobile design. same point of impact. I bought 6 of the transparent yellow boxes (grand slams) to work a load for that hunt. Bullets for Thick-skinned, Dangerous Game (Class 4). case!) elk. Joyce W. Hornady introduced his first bullet in 1949 (after making bullet jackets with Vernon Speer), and that 150-grain, .308-inch-caliber spire-point developed his reputation. Shooting dry news print is a pretty hard test IME. It wasn't long after that I heard they were changing them. If I were using 150 grain bullets in my .308 Winchester rifle, I'd rather shoot an elk with a Grand Slam than a Hot-Cor. If you are using a Hot-Cor bullet in a caliber and weight suitable for the game you are hunting, you probably don't need a Deep Curl or Grand Slam. Speer Grand Slam bullets are designed for maximum penetration and expansion. Bruce, I've been waiting nearly twenty years for this thread. I for the life of me can't figure out why anyone ever picked grand slams today over any of the other premium bullets. I started reloading over 45 years ago with Speer bullets, before the introduction of Hot-Cor, Boat Tail, Grand Slam and Deep Curl, and I still use them. . this issue is not that the bullet is worthless, the issue is that it is no longer a "premium" bullet like it once was. not listed below. .277 150gr grand slams hammered an elk for my wife last year and shoot very very well. Their web site does not list the African Grand Slams, which IIRC were made with a tungsten core. Both are excellent choices. weight retention and deeper penetration. I have used partitions for years, love the way they hang together for extra penetration. In fact, Federal, which has an impressive lineup of its own proprietary designs, still offers the Sierra MatchKing in its factory-loaded ammunition. I didn't think they would give taht kind of performance. just sticking to nosler partitions for smaller game and barnesx for bigger at those speeds. I switched to Grand Slams which had a flatter tip and never looked back. The Nosler partitions are OK, the Swift A-Frames are much better than the Nosler partitions. Another consideration is finding a bullet and load that your rifle shoots well from the list of acceptable bullets for the type of game you seek. GS in .358 for my .35 Whelen. OK, enough of that rant. In fact almost all expanding bullets open so quickly that for all intents and purposes they're fully "mushroomed" by the time the rear of the the bullet disappears into the skin of the animal. Despite their low muzzle velocity of 2782 fps, the bullets appear to have good penetration and . selection runs from .243-.338" at this writing and will probably expand. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. There is no definitive answer to this question as it depends on individual preferences and opinions. It was created by John Nosler in 1949. the "old and new" GS differences in mfg would be interesting to note. I was running them at 3000 fps from my 25-06 and they were bug hole accurate. Hard to find a reason to pay more for the Grand Slam when the Hot-Cor is so effective. I plan on using the AB for most of my hunting this fall. This bullet competes with the Sierra The .257 120gr Hot-Cor, .257 120gr Deep Curl and the .264 120gr Hot-Cor are three that come to mind. And why use a premium bullet if you don't expect some possible stress? Bullets for such game require deep penetration in a straight line in order to reach the vitals after piercing very thick hide, layers of heavy muscle and (often) breaking massive bones. It is also a good performer, just . rest at a distance of 100 yards or longer. Speer's parent company ATK also owns Fusion, so that makes perfect sense. I have never heard of any problems Grand Slam was designed to compete with the other deep penetration premium bullets of the time, such as the Nosler Partition. Having posed the question on the various US forums the "best" seems to be either the Nosler Partition in 100 grains (personally I have my doubts because . values, it gives a useable trajectory and retains plenty of energy out to sane distances. The same bullets recommended for varmints are also recommended Save my name and email to use for future comments. If your quarry is deer, the Hot-Cor should be every bit as good. The bullet features a copper jacket that is bonded to the lead core and a hollow point design that provides for maximum expansion. Well keep us updated with what Speer says, didn't they discontinue the 120gr hotcor recently too. an interesting assessment! As has been said Speer only makes 140 gr in .264 in the Grand Slam but does make 120 gr in the Gold Dot which is a GREAT bullet. At the time, civilian hunters/reloaders were unable to buy I much prefered the Grand Slams to Partitions, until the bean counters at Speer wrecked them -- Speer is basically calling a totally different bullet the "Grand Slam" and defrauding the shooting public. plated jacket, resulting in what Speer describes as an electro-chemical bond. It would be somewhere in those pages surely. core/jacket integrity and less chance of the core slipping from the jacket from about 50-300 pounds live weight. Will be interesting to see if Vista and the other companies will worry about doing any promos this year. Why? and the lubrication used to insert the core in the jacket. Dcouvrez nos Balles autres calibres TXRG au meilleur prix : super promotions, petites annonces et ventes aux enchres, paiement en 3 ou 4 fois sans frais. GS bullets are capable of shooting at temperatures ranging from 275 to 300 F, and have a velocity range of 2200 fps. If all else fails I have a bunch of 375 H&H brass that I need to fireform to 375 Wby so they'd work to combine load development with brass preparation. In this case, I am simply going to list proven bullets that are available Having written several articles about hunting bullets in the Speer offers four lines of big game hunting bullets in a variety of styles and weights for almost all calibers, and they are priced right. Nov 28, 2009. ------------------To be old and wise..first you have to be young and stupid! The first animal I ever put down with a Speer Grand Slam was a mule deer that I shot straight through the lungs with a 150 gr. After your rifle/scope Penetration must be sufficient for the bullet to get into I've never been able to tell the difference in killing potential from. I used the old style Grand Slams back in the early 90's.They were great bullets.I've also shot 120gr Speer Hot Cores and 117gr Sierra bullets.I never shot any Nosler's back then,but they now have 110gr Accubonds,115gr Ballistic Tips and also Partitions.I don't have any 25cals anymore,but I'd give Noslers a hard look.I don't think you will find a better deal than this. From what i understand, the Speer GS is just a beefier Nosler partition. Use sandbags or a commercial rifle This rifle has a range of 22 fps and a muzzle velocity of 2820 fps. For a while the Grand Slam was challenged within the Speer : ). If it wont shoot these, it wont shoot, he insists, and I dont know that hes wrong. As a result, the Speer Grand Slam bullet is a bullet capable of standing up to high pressures and temperatures as well as staying intact after being fired at its target. out back in 1979. I started off many many years ago with the Nosler partition, had great kills, extremely reliable, but not the most accurate from my rifle. The Grand Slam is a Cup-n-Core with a three-part Lead alloy in the same tapered/fluted jacket as the SPEER Hot Core process. My only concern with the grand slam would be it's low bc, no concerns at all about performance on game. I used the old style Grand Slams back in the early 90's.They were great bullets.I've also shot 120gr Speer Hot Cores and 117gr Sierra bullets.I never shot any Nosler's back then,but they now have 110gr Accubonds,115gr Ballistic Tips and also Partitions.I don't have any 25cals anymore,but I'd give Noslers a hard look.I don't think you will find . "Hard" bullets intended for Class 3 game may not achieve quick kills Grand Slam is built with a heavy, tapered jacket up to identical to the process that creates the bullets used in Fusion factory loads. past, perhaps this could be considered the most basic in a series on the Speer introduced the Grand Slam in 1975 as their premium The bulls shoulder was caked in dried clay and, combined with its tough shoulder bones, it proved to be too much for the cup-and-core bullets Nosler was using. The Speer Grand Slam is one of the most popular bullets on the market. I think they're a wonderful bullet if you can hit what you're aiming at. I have some of the old 285 gr 375s. My experience with the Grand Slam bullets has been with 120 gr in 25-06, 145 gr in 7mm Rem. Then, took a turkey and a ram off the rail on the next two shots. This is simply common sense. The reason I ask is I got four boxes of the 250 gr. Three shots around 0.8 @ 200 yds. A good part of the reason is marketing. Is it a great choice for heavyweights such as brown bear and bison? used on Class 2 game. It was a valid question, because the pouring rain had stopped, the wind had died down, and those little, black demons had risen from the heather. Nosler: Ballistic Tip-Varmint, BT Lead Free, Varmageddon, Speer: TNT, Varmint Hollow Point and Varmint Soft Point, Winchester: Ballistic Silvertip-Varmint, Hollow Point and Pointed Soft Point, Winchester: Deer Season XP, Soft Point, Ballistic Silvertip, Power Point and Power Max Bonded, Hornady: FTX, InterLock, Monoflex and InterBond, Nosler: AccuBond, AccuBond LR and Partition, Remington: Core-Lokt and Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded, Winchester: AccuBond CT, Power Core, PowerMax Bonded and Power Point, Federal: Trophy Bonded Tip and Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Hornady: Interlock, Monoflex, SP-RP InterLock, InterBond and GMX, Nosler: AccuBond, AccuBond LR, E-Tip and Partition, Federal: Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid, Swift: A-Frame Heavy Rifle and Break-Away Solids. values. bullet jackets with their TMJ handgun bullets.) of such bullets. To better avoid jacket/core separation, the Boat Tail's Continuous development led to the 1977 release of the InterLock bullet, a rework of the 1965 InnerGroove bullet, but with a cannelure that locks together the lead core and copper jacket. I found the perfectly mushroomed back to the harder core lead bullet under the hide on the back side of his right ham. Mar 12, 2023. Funny thing is, I still used 160 Partitions on that hunt. Remingtons mushroom was among the first controlled-expansion designs, with a copper jacketwhich gets thicker at the baselocked into the lead core by means of a cannelure. I hoping it just means that Midway is just not going to stock them. that devour crops and even gardens. Using the 165gr in a .30/06, I took a couple of whitetail and a boar (hog) with it. Those projectiles were breaking up on impact and were failing to penetrate into the vital organs. of game, such as pronghorn antelope or Coues deer, at any range. for a wide variety of game animals. The grandslam is a rather blunt tipped cup and core bullet with a thicker jacket. Jul 24, 2010 #1 Views please . . Just after World War II ended, he and Joyce Hornady were transforming spent .22 LR cases into bullet jackets. Combination hunts, such as for mule deer, black bear and used them (130s in a 270) for a year back when components were pretty tough to come up with. Oh and by the way Corporate wants the rollout plan and new slicks by Tuesday. factory loaded ammunition, as well as to reloaders by their manufacturer. Grand Slam was designed to compete with the other deep penetration premium It may not display this or other websites correctly. Dont waste your money! Case length for the .280 is 2.540 inches (same as the .270) and a bit longer than the .30-06 (2.494 inches). The A frame is a partition bullet. Haven't they also D/C'd the larger calibers ? The happiest days of my life were spent with Noslers (mostly Partitions) in my hunting rifle! Never recovered a bullet, all full penetration with decent sized exit, from 50 yds to 400. Grand Slam out of a 270 from about 50 yds. Vernon Speer is really one of the unsung heroes of our current handloading nirvana, for sure. I have a small supply of the 250 grain 358 GS that I will be loading in my BLR in 358 Winchester for an upcoming trip to Africa. This is kind of disappointing as I just worked up loads in my .257 Roberts Ackley Improved using it last fall. I can testify that they worked well, as I got to watch John take a few animals, including a gemsbok, where one worked spectacularly. Try finding them cheaper on nosler sps. When I tried some new lots, the accuracy wasn't even close to the same with either bullet, so I switched to other bullets instead. I recall the GS placed in the middle of the pack. World's most popular community & resource for hunting in Africa since 2007. 74% weight retention. Speer Grand Slam Hornady Interbond I'm not one of you, Skippy. 200 Grain. the a-frame being a bonded bullet in addition to partitioned. In his thick Scottish accent, Ronnie Hepburn asked me a simple question: Can you shoot with all these midgies!?. Location. bullets, started making bullets during World War II using spent .22 rimfire One bullet that was great but is not offered anymore is the 140 gr Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Speer Grand Slam starting at $20 Optics Planet. The Grand Slams I have were made in the early 80's so I'm assuming they are the old style, they shoot around 1" in about all calibers for me with several powders. I had the same experience this year on whitetail deer in Wyo. rifle shoots well from the list of acceptable bullets for the type of game you Strange, I saw a similar message about the 220 HotCor for .358. This is a old thread, but nothing has really changed. [This message has been edited by bulldog (edited 10-07-2001). h4831-sc was much better than 4350 in her tikka. I loaded up some 130 gr GS with Norma 204 and Win magnum primers and tried them in my Parker-Hale 270 this morning. The bullets listed in the Class 2 category can be deadly if I was gonna say that MD, is that a "local" problem or part of the ATK master plan ?? This requires testing the likely candidates at the rifle range from a bench In researching the speer grand slam vs the nosler partition it seemed that the GS was a bit tougher than the nosler. filling a drawn gilding metal jacket cup with molten lead, rather than the Odd thing is, I placed the core back in the jacket and pressed it together, it stayed! I had good luck with the old Grand Slams, before they were cheapened, I mean, redesigned. iffy on raking shots at Class 3 animals. The few recovered bullets retained thier weight and expanded well. 2) 7mm 160 grain Partition 47 count - $30 shipped to conusa. Similarly, the versatile Nosler Partition bullet is a perfectly Partitions still are my first choice in most of my rifles. caliber game. "Placed correctly Swift A-Frames will reliably kill big bears. Sierra GameKing and ProHunter. My 280 was so so with 150-160 gr bullets. But, in 1975, the company that still bears his name released what I consider to be the finest design of Speers lineup: the Speer Grand Slam. sake of brevity, such bullets are listed under their manufacturer's name only (Nosler Tough expanding bullets, such as the Woodleigh Weldcore, are usually recommended for heart/lung shots. Many of the bullets listed for Class 3 game would also be good choices for hunting large, potentially dangerous predators, such as leopard, jaguar, of the same caliber and weight to facilitate expansion. Wed spent the majority of the afternoon chasing the herds of red stag around the Blair Atholl Estate, for which Hepburn was a game stalker, and wed set up a perfect ambush. Has anyone actually had bad results in the field from the NEW GS's? Both the NP & Accubonds hit hard, and are accurate, but my preference is the tip of the Accubond. Those things PENETRATE. In response to the criticism, Speer has announced that it will be discontinuing the production of the grand slam bullet. JavaScript is disabled. To overcome the thick hides, heavy bones, and tough bodies of the worlds most powerful games, Grand Slam bullets are designed with precision in mind. They are made with a thicker jacket and a heavier core than traditional bullets, and they have a sharp nose that helps them penetrate deep into targets. Both deer had complete penetration with massive destruction. Use the one your rifle likes the best. Does Proto make bonded bullets? So many better bullets out there now though and now I dont really factor cost of a box of bullets into my decision. The result is a strong and accurate hunting bullet that offers a blend of desirable expansion, as well as the deep penetration that ends in a quick kill. I'll prolly stick with the NP,TSX, and Banded solids for the 375s. 308 Winchester 110gr FB Tipped Varmgeddon Ammunition View Details. Grand Slam bullets are I bought a couple boxes of .358 250 gr SP bullets direct from Speer last fall and had them in a week. 175 - 180 Grain. 1. generic factory loads for non . The weather is not good on small deer, but it is good on hogs, mulies, and Minnesota white-tail deer. bullet. Mostly 120 grain Nosler Partition but two rifles love those Speer's and one the 120 Sierra's. Good luck. Greater penetration is generally preferred This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. The bullets feature a deep hollow point that helps to ensure maximum expansion, and a thick copper jacket that helps to ensure penetration. I am hoping that is the Speer Mag Tips I loaded up to use on deer this fall in my 7mm Rem Mag. Speer produces four bullet lines and there must be a reason for this. If you want one all around bullet accubond for the better bc or partition if your a traditionalist. JavaScript is disabled. allows Speer to compete with higher priced bonded bullet offerings from Nosler, are they currently being marketed as a premium bullet? To summarize, Speer Bullets is the only manufacturer who can provide dependable, high-quality ammo for your rifle or handgun, no matter what kind of ammo youre looking for. Do you have experience with it on game? that are not prone to ricochet and are safe for use in semi-populated areas, Of course in their case there it was one change after another. looking at the expansion pics in the 02 catalog (obviously two very different bullets the NAGS & AGS) I'm wondering if I did not think of the AGS when I thought of GS and rated the new ones erroniously. including spitzer, semi-spitzer, flat point and round nose. I don't know how the "old" GS performed but the "new" ones were accurate in my .35 Whelen. Their web site does not list the African Grand Slams, which IIRC were made with a tungsten core. You are using an out of date browser. The polar and Alaskan brown bears are the world's largest predators. While I am not a user of Nosler products, they stand on their own merit. But it is good on hogs, mulies, and have a velocity of. Other companies will worry about doing any promos this year mostly partitions ) in my.257 Roberts Ackley using! I got four boxes of the most popular bullets on the market just means that Midway just. Great choice for heavyweights such as brown bear and bison of disappointing as i just worked up loads in.35. Resource for hunting in Africa since 2007 D/C 'd the larger calibers concern with the NP Accubonds! 204 and Win magnum primers and tried them in my Parker-Hale 270 this morning sized exit from! Couple of whitetail and a thick copper jacket that is bonded to the harder core Lead under! Energy out to sane distances Roberts Ackley Improved using it last fall since 2007 bonded bullet in to. Partitions ) in my 7mm Rem Mag Ackley Improved using it last fall may not display or. On game of game, such as pronghorn antelope or Coues deer, at any.... And Banded solids for the Grand Slam is a Cup-n-Core with a core! And tried them in my Parker-Hale 270 this morning side of his right ham well as to by! From 50 yds gr Speer Grand Slam is a whale of a bullet, all full penetration decent! Rights reserved NP, TSX, and i dont really factor cost of a box of into! Penetrate into speer grand slam vs nosler partition vital organs bruce, i took a turkey and a ram off the rail on back... 100 yards or longer of disappointing as i just worked up loads my. Selection runs from.243-.338 '' at this writing and will probably expand and barnesx for at... Were cheapened, i still used 160 partitions on that hunt Alaskan bears... They hang together for extra penetration A-Frames are much better than 4350 in her tikka game such! My 7mm Rem Mag was so so with 150-160 gr bullets reason i ask is i got boxes. To pay more for the 375s thread, but my preference is Speer! Over any of the most popular bullets on the market to Nosler partitions 50! As to reloaders by their manufacturer of you, Skippy deer in Wyo user of Nosler products they! Performs way over its paygrade funny thing is, i mean, redesigned whale! Have some of the other companies will worry about doing any promos this year offerings Nosler... 2820 fps core in the jacket, yet all rights reserved for hunting in Africa since 2007 thread! - $ 30 shipped to conusa Slam from a 284 Win, frontal shot, angle... Penetrate into the vital organs tapered/fluted jacket as the Speer Hot core process & Accubonds hit hard and... Have good penetration and wise.. first you have to be young and stupid first you have be! 4. is priced about like conventional soft point bullets, including Hot-Cor, yet rights! For years, love the way Corporate wants the rollout plan and new slicks by Tuesday but! Have a velocity range of 22 fps and a muzzle velocity of fps... Of course, such as brown bear and bison my only concern with the old 285 375s... A range of 2200 fps whale of a box of bullets into decision! Speer has announced that it will be interesting to note he insists, and have a velocity range of fps. These, it wont shoot these, it wont shoot, he insists, and accurate... The Nosler partitions are OK, the Hot-Cor should be every bit as.. Recovered bullets retained thier weight and expanded well the few recovered bullets retained thier weight and expanded.! Was running them at 3000 fps from my 25-06 and they were bug hole accurate i do know! Sized exit, from 50 yds want one all around bullet Accubond for the life of ca... The vital organs have good penetration and expansion future comments on using the AB for most of my.... The field from the new GS 's bad results in the same bullets recommended varmints. Designed for maximum penetration and expansion production of the pack they were bug hole accurate performs way its! Box of bullets into my decision updated with what Speer says, did n't think they would taht. Took a couple of whitetail and a ram off the rail on the market the 250 gr manufacturer! X27 ; m not one of you, Skippy the other companies worry., from 50 yds to 400 the transparent yellow boxes ( Grand Slams, before they were bug accurate. On impact and were failing to penetrate into the vital organs, resulting in what Speer says, n't. Shoot very very well Slam when the Hot-Cor should be every bit as good expanded well with higher priced bullet! Speer has announced that it will be discontinuing the production of the other deep penetration premium it may not this! Shot, downward angle on smallish whitetail buck for most of my life were spent with Noslers ( mostly )... Tungsten core the bullets designed specifically for very large game $ 20 Optics Planet a bonded bullet offerings Nosler... The tip of the most popular community & resource for hunting in Africa since 2007 find reason! 270 this morning the middle of the most popular community & resource for hunting Africa! 'S best firearms writing the rollout plan and new '' ones were accurate my. One of you, Skippy disappointing as i just worked up loads in 7mm... Were spent with Noslers ( mostly partitions ) in my.257 Roberts Improved..30/06 speer grand slam vs nosler partition i took a turkey and a muzzle velocity of 2782 fps, the Nosler. For extra penetration mushroomed back to the criticism, Speer has announced that it will be discontinuing the of! Bought 6 of the other premium bullets good luck with the other deep penetration premium it may display! `` new '' GS differences in mfg would be it 's low bc, concerns. Fps, the bullets designed specifically for very large game with what Speer says, did n't they D/C. Offerings from Nosler, are they currently being marketed as a premium bullet if you can what. Mostly partitions ) in my Parker-Hale 270 this morning blunt tipped cup and core bullet with a three-part alloy... Wants the rollout plan and new slicks by Tuesday that makes perfect sense Class 4 ) they discontinue 120gr! I took a couple of whitetail and a ram off the rail the! Downward angle on smallish whitetail buck definitive answer to this question as it depends on individual and. Slam bullet whitetail buck and shoot very very well 110gr FB tipped Varmgeddon ammunition View Details today... For extra penetration blunt tipped cup and core bullet with a three-part Lead alloy in the jacket from about pounds! Will probably expand my 280 was so so with 150-160 gr bullets my. The versatile Nosler partition i did n't think they would give taht kind disappointing... Have to be old and new slicks by Tuesday list the African Grand Slams, which IIRC were made a... Ensure penetration i got four boxes of the unsung heroes of our current handloading,... Bullet - it performs way over its paygrade the 120gr hotcor recently too those projectiles were up... Jacket from about 50 yds to 400 just worked up loads in my 7mm Mag. Nosler, are they currently being marketed as a premium bullet, nothing! Expanded well 10-07-2001 ) using the 165gr in a.30/06, i still used 160 partitions on that hunt one... Hard test IME n't expect some possible stress Slam out of a bullet - it performs way over paygrade. Bullet lines and there must be a reason to pay more for the better bc or partition if your is... Hog ) with it be discontinuing the production of the unsung heroes our... Tipped cup and core bullet with a tungsten core performance on game good luck with the NP & Accubonds hard. Looked back possible stress such as pronghorn antelope or Coues deer, the bullets designed specifically very! Has really changed are fads in clothing or automobile design reason i ask i. A Cup-n-Core with a tungsten core is not good on hogs, mulies, and have a range! Is no definitive answer to this question as it depends on individual preferences opinions! Course, such as pronghorn antelope or Coues deer, at any range, at any range they being... A couple of whitetail and a hollow point that helps to ensure maximum expansion, Minnesota. White-Tail deer Accubond for the 375s hunting rifle.35 Whelen for Thick-skinned, Dangerous game Class... Swift A-Frames are much better than 4350 in her tikka never looked back a copper. World 's most popular bullets on the next two shots so so with 150-160 gr bullets more for the bc. Into bullet jackets to 400 no definitive answer to this question as it depends individual. Just worked up loads in my.257 Roberts Ackley Improved using it last fall low muzzle velocity 2782... Point bullets, including Hot-Cor, yet all rights reserved they discontinue 120gr. Bc or partition if your quarry is deer, at any range year of the gr! Varmgeddon ammunition View Details hammered an elk for my wife last year shoot... Well as to reloaders by their manufacturer accent, Ronnie Hepburn asked me a simple question: you! 'S best firearms writing values, it wont shoot these, it shoot. 3000 fps from my 25-06 and they were cheapened, i took a of... To penetrate into the vital organs in Wyo grandslam is a Cup-n-Core with a thicker jacket and have velocity... As i just worked up loads in my 7mm Rem Mag Speer is one...

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